Evil Interview Tomorrow
After years of near-joblessness, this was very abrupt-- My cousin phoned today to ask for my resume, because he recommended me to a friend who is hiring. His friend phoned me immediately. Tomorrow I interview for a boring job as an Asset Manager for an ad agency. I would upload and sort marketing images and copy for a corporate borganism, helping them pollute the world in at least two different ways: exhaust fumes, and advertisements.
The job description is easy to understand. It calls for no skills of any kind that I can discern. Yes, I know that the ability to use a computer and understand the word "upload" are skills, technically. It's still filing things into filing cabinets. And yet it pays well. Not half what some of you make, but more than I've ever made.
They say I'll be encouraged to grow my skills and that there will be a use for them, but I've heard that before and I don't believe them. There will be no place for those skills, because corporate borganisms are contractually obligated to use torture devices instead of technology platforms.
The fact that I am already daydreaming about quitting this job is a strong hint that I should continue my current plans to change careers. I love the skills that I'm learning, and am comfortable with a low income.
Do I have the right to turn down lucrative work in the middle of the Great Recession?
Comments
rmeidaking on Apr. 28, 2010 11:50 PM
Quick answer: No, not really. Any income trumps no income. So you're a file clerk - it's still income. It beats bagging groceries at Kroger.
matt-arnold on Apr. 29, 2010 12:39 AM
I can't get a job bagging groceries at Kroger. I've tried. Minimum-wage jobs want employees who they know won't get a better opportunity. I am out-competed by those with minimum-wage experience and not too much qualification.
The only way out is even more qualifications.
trav13369 on Apr. 28, 2010 11:51 PM
I feel your pain on the "pollute" train of thought. Being in the automotive aftermarket, I have no right to complain about being trying to be "green". As far as looking down at lucrative work in this job market, if ya got a complaint, keep it on the down-low- there ARE people who WILL give you grief for citing it- "You should be lucky you got the chance!" Of course, they have a job that they'd quit, in less than a heartbeat, if given the chance.
dawnwolf on Apr. 29, 2010 1:16 AM — You're making this sound overly black and white
You sound almost as though you think you'd have to stay at this job for the rest of your life or something. If you can make more money while getting the education you need to do what you want, why not? Corporations are there for us to use -- do what you have to, don't worry about it or take it too seriously, collect your paycheck, and quit when you want.Hell, if it's easy enough and you can get away with it (as in, probably, not being seen) you can even study for part of your time there.
If I were doing something I hated anyway, I'd rather take the better money.
As for whether or not you have a "right" to turn it down...that really depends, I guess, on your living situation and how anyone who might be helping you support yourself feels about it.
matt-arnold on Apr. 29, 2010 1:35 AM — Re: You're making this sound overly black and white
If you can make more money while getting the education you need to do what you want, why not?
I can't go to school full-time and also have a full-time job, because the schedules conflict. Both of my classes for the Spring and Summer semesters are during business hours on workdays. If I miss those two classes in the upcoming Spring semester, I won't have the prerequisite for the final class in the Summer semester, meaning I'd have to wait a year instead of graduating in September. And presumably the ad agency would still want me to work in 2011, so if I'm going to work for them in 2010, I may as well continue in 2011 for the same reasons. Plus in 2011 I would need the job to pay my loans which would come due because I quit school in 2010 to work for the ad agency. The opportunity that I got in 2009 to help with school in 2010 might not happen again in 2011.
So yes, it would be quitting indefinitely. Any reason to go back to school in 2011 is the exact same as my reasons for staying in school in 2010. Except harder in 2011 than in 2010. The path I am on will reach my goal in September. That is already viable with my student loan, so why not follow through on the plan?
Wow, parts of that explanation were really complicated. "I would crack the time stream, to go back into my past, to alter your future, which has now become OUR PRESENT!"
I think I'll go in there and tell them I don't want to quit doing what I'm doing, and that I fully intend to seek other work as soon as possible. I don't know why they would bother to hire me if I say that. But if they can accommodate that with a part-time arrangement, I'll take it.
dawnwolf on Apr. 29, 2010 1:48 AM — Re: You're making this sound overly black and white
Ah! *nods* More context is Good.
But why tell them a damn thing you don't have to? Negotiate for hours that will work around your school hours. If they go for it, that was their choice; you don't owe them anything beyond the standard two weeks' notice when you're done.
It's a win-win if it works out. You get more money while going to school. They have someone to do the monkey job. It's their own fault if they think you should be more loyal to them than they would be to you.
tammylc on Apr. 29, 2010 1:00 PM — Re: You're making this sound overly black and white
Right - what Dawn said. You want to finish the schooling you're in. Either they agree that's a good idea or they don't hire you. Don't make their decision for them.
users on May. 4, 2010 6:43 AM — Re: You're making this sound overly black and white
^This (and above this...This too!)
I've said it before, and I've said it again...you aren't given that for which you do not ask. Oftener than not, merely asking is all it takes to get things we want or need, and we don't get them because we don't try.
atdt1991 on Apr. 29, 2010 1:31 AM
You have no obligation to stay at a job. If it will help fund you meeting ultimate goals, or fulfill more important personal financial obligations, I say hell yes take it. You can always quit.
Also, even though I know this is our "weak spot", if I can call it that, I'm not used to seeing you be such a fatalist. While ad agencies aren't exactly known for being caring citizens, there are definitely ethical ad agencies out there.
A corporation is just a certain kind of business. All businesses exist, ultimately, to funnel money one way or another - even non-profits have to make enough so that the employees can live.
Regarding growing your skills, there are dozens of learning experiences you can have with this job - even at your most pessimistic, you have to admit that it would be a change.
To be very frank, though, if you are already daydreaming about quitting this job before you've even done it for a day, I doubt the interviewer will neglect to note your distaste in some way. You're pretty up-front about your feelings, and I think in this case, your heart will be on your sleeve, and the decision will probably be made for you .
matt-arnold on Apr. 29, 2010 2:27 AM
Excellent and well-thought comments. Each deserves to be addressed with important additional information.
A corporation is just a certain kind of business. All businesses exist, ultimately, to funnel money one way or another - even non-profits have to make enough so that the employees can live.
The profit motive isn't the problem; it's the size. When it gets that large, no one has the autonomy to make real change. "Borganism" sounds like an evil word, but in reality the system is just mindless. I want to work somewhere nimbler. I want to say "here's why this platform is not good" and they let me do it right, instead of saying "someone who none of us ever met, in another department, on another continent, in another language, signed a contract with another company, to make you use that, because they will never have to use it themselves, so you have to twist yourself into a knot to get an ugly result, forever". I like having a boss who sees the situation first-hand and has actual decision-making power. A small company like a startup can do that.
While ad agencies aren't exactly known for being caring citizens, there are definitely ethical ad agencies out there.
I can frame it in a non-ethical way. I am just the wrong person. It doesn't make sense to make ads when I am someone who wishes the world had less ads. Someone who is happy when he doesn't see ads and unhappy when he sees ads, probably should not be surrounded by ad-making. We are supposed to try to do something when we see others do it in a way we admire; or when we think we can do it better. For me, the only version of "better" I know how to offer is usually "tell the client to stop making the product", and naturally the client won't want to hear that.
Now maybe ads are fine. That's a fine opinion, but I'm not sold on it personally, and this is about my own goals. By and large, I spend as little money as possible. Few things are worth buying to me. They are worth it to others, but I'm not others, I'm me. It's my own personal tastes and opinion, and no judgement on them. I don't fit in the culture.
I considered trying to "sell myself on the value of ads, and salespeople, and products I don't care about". Why go to all the trouble trying to wedge myself into that shape? Why travel uphill all my life? Why not just do things I already like? That's why I embarked in my current direction.
Regarding growing your skills, there are dozens of learning experiences you can have with this job - even at your most pessimistic, you have to admit that it would be a change.
You'd be surprised. Actually, it sounds identical to two other experiences I have had. There were precisely zero opportunities to learn anything that would be valuable outside the company's wasteful and ineffective proprietary system. There was only lip-service for wanting my skills, and any possibility of taking a class was considered a waste of money even though it had been promised in the hiring process.
atdt1991 on Apr. 29, 2010 4:44 AM
That is, indeed, a shame. In my own corporate environment, education's encouraged, and my boss listens to my requests for change. But then, I work for a journal body, not an ad agency. *shrug*
I'm sorry to hear you've been treated that way, anywhere. I wouldn't expect you to change your opinion about advertising - hell, I despise most ads, and I -enjoy- working on some advertising.
I don't know what your employment situation is right this second, but I certainly wasn't talking about some sort of long-term commitment. You mentioned the economy, and sometimes a little data entry, or whathaveyou, is worth staying afloat. Especially if you have an alternate plan in the works.
Anyway, I'm glad you have a direction plotted out that fits in with your life goals. If this job has zero bearing on any of those life goals, by all means, don't give it a second thought.
tlatoani on Apr. 29, 2010 1:34 AM
Depends on whether you need the money or not. Do you?
matt-arnold on Apr. 29, 2010 1:41 AM
No. According to my projections and the success of my cash-based budgeting system, I expect my expenditures to fall entirely within my student loans, barring multiple simultaneous health or automotive problems.
tlatoani on Apr. 29, 2010 2:36 AM
I'd stick with school, then, if that's what you want to do.
tlatoani on Apr. 29, 2010 2:51 AM
(Of course, you could also take part-time work if it doesn't interfere with your classes. But if you're set to graduate in September, that's only 4 more months you have to stick it out.)
matt-arnold on Apr. 29, 2010 2:53 AM
I even have a specific employer in mind. If all goes as planned, Wonderstruck Studios will have opened their facility at Ford Field by then.
sorcycat on Apr. 29, 2010 2:25 AM
You shouldn't quit in your mind until you interview them. Find out what they have in mind for moving up. Ask for a time table. Don't be passive about converting it into something which will make you excited about going to work. They don't know what you want to be doing. You have to tell them.
albogdan on Apr. 29, 2010 12:43 PM
I like your idea of finishing what you started and trying for something you really want to do work-wise.
Of course, if you're ready to say "no" anyway, but could use a little extra cash on the side, you can always offer to work part time. If they don't go for it you lose nothing.
matt-arnold on Apr. 29, 2010 1:52 PM
Yeah, that sounds like the right plan.
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