Whoa, hold on a second.
Free work that I do has to be for a not-for-profit (which I do frequently, but right now there's no point in the brochure being for a convention, because I have to prove I can design things for boring, grown-up businesses), or for a made-up company. Imagine that I don't pay my landlord and my creditor, and I have to live off of Rachel like a deadbeat, because I gave somebody else a financial profit and I didn't ask for part of it. Is that right to do?
One side of it is, needing portfolio pieces is never a reason to do free work for somebody else.
would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free? Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?
Would you offer a neurosurgeon the “opportunity” to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor? (Maybe you could offer him “a few bucks” for “materials”. What a deal!)
The other side of it, the side that article doesn't seem to realize, is that no matter how rare and difficult graphic design skills and software expertise may be, there just isn't a business case for it. It's for deep pockets to show off how much they can splurge. Whereas you absolutely cannot opt out of a mechanic for your car or a brain surgeon for a tumor.
Consider if my friends do pay me to design for their companies, and I do go into freelancing. I've calculated it out that I'd have to charge $17.50 an hour to make ends meet! And then it costs money to get the document printed, if you intend to actually use it. Full-color costs thousands. All told, I don't believe in the business case for my own areas of expertise, plus I'd never get ahead financially, all it would do is stave off destitution as paying work would arrive unreliably.
So if anybody is going to convince themselves of a case for such a business relationship, it would have to be the customer. (And of course convincing themselves to buy somebody else's services isn't the customer's job.) I can understand highway-robbing an employer, just like hotels charge extortionary fees for internet access because the companies that use their conference space have deep pockets. But I can't look in the eye of anyone I care about and ask them for $17.50 an hour.
I can think of that going very badly. The client who looks at the piece, and looks at the insane money they spent on it, and has to get revisions on the piece over and over and is never satisfied. Or the printer screws it up, or it looks different in ink than it looked on the screen, even though I warned them, and they blame me.
It's happened to me a lot, and all I can say is that I'm glad those people were strangers so I didn't lose a friendship.
Comments
renniekins on Feb. 2, 2008 3:48 PM
Interesting point, and it made me mull it over quite a bit.
Personally I don't see what the difference is between using a made-up company and using an existing company - as long as the real company knew you were doing it as an exercise. If you come up with something they can use, bonus! If not, nobody is any worse off than before.
An advantage to a real company is that it's more "fleshed out" than a made-up one. It sounded like a good idea to me when it was suggested.
You asked your friends to use their skills to make up a company and business plan and design on a napkin for you. Were you asking them to do free work for you?
stormgren on Feb. 2, 2008 4:38 PM
An advantage to a real company is that it's more "fleshed out" than a made-up one. It sounded like a good idea to me when it was suggested.
Moreover, it also generates real references and referrals. And money. I couldn't tell for sure in some of the responses in his prior post, but I certainly hope nobody was seriously asking for free work for a real business. I certainly wouldn't be for mine.
You asked your friends to use their skills to make up a company and business plan and design on a napkin for you. Were you asking them to do free work for you?
This made me chuckle, and provided great food for thought. Bravo.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 5:07 PM
No skills are required or desired for that. Making up stuff is just a fun meme-y thing that people do in blog posts.
tlatoani on Feb. 2, 2008 10:17 PM
To you, it is. Some of us make up business ideas because we or others are actually going to do them. As I said, I've got two startups percolating right now. Both of those are just "made-up ideas," but I intend to see if I can make some money off them. And I've done it in the past too, with varying degrees of success. Again, you're making assumptions about the resource level and background of your community of friends that may not be true.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 10:21 PM
I am confused about why you are saying this. I don't need any viable ideas to make a fake brochure. Perhaps my request was seen in a different context than in which it was offered. I was thinking of something like "Spatula City. We make spatulas, and that's all." Or "Semi-Solid Software. The Danes call it kvality!" You know, having fun, shooting the breeze, coming up with something funny. Blogs.
tlatoani on Feb. 2, 2008 10:31 PM
I had the impression that you needed to show these guys something that looked like serious work, to prove that you could do design for a serious business, but that you're morally opposed to doing it for an extant business because that would be giving them a benefit they didn't pay for. Spatula City ain't going to cut it in that context.
Here's an idea: why don't you do a brochure for your freelance business as a graphic designer? That's a serious business (and one these guys are familiar with), you're not giving anyone else an unearned benefit, and it would actually be beneficial to you to articulate why people should hire you.
matt-arnold on Feb. 5, 2008 1:46 PM
For usability-style publications that are driven by the reader seeking information out of their own motivation (in contrast to marketing), a good reason to hire me is that I'm very fast and reliable. I also know that for that type of publication, factors such as accuracy, attention to detail, and revision control are extra important. It's even more important than for publications that deliver marketing messages. That's saying a lot, because I was a print producer for two years and spent all day managing factual corrections to ads, so I've seen how important accuracy is to advertisers as well.
Unfortunately, marketing customers need much more than that. They need the ability to make an intrinsically boring message appear to be interesting, to penetrate the user's inattention. I have no experience with this, as the only marketing materials I've made were things that had already caught my attention on a personal level and so did not need to make this leap, since I already knew the attractions.
It might be necessary to follow your earlier advice about "For Dummies" or "The Complete Idiot's Guide" to find out how to make this leap. I'm not precisely sure which topic to read on, since I don't want to read the same old usabiilty advice I've been practically worshipping for the ten years of my career, I need something more specific. I'm going to do some more in-depth search to find a book to read to follow your earlier advice. I don't know what to say in a brochure that sells me to these guys until I do that.
tlatoani on Feb. 2, 2008 3:53 PM
Do you actually believe this:
The other side of it, the side that article doesn't seem to realize, is that no matter how rare and difficult graphic design skills and software expertise may be, there just isn't a business case for it.
And if you believe this is true, can you explain to me why competent business executives -- people who know where every last penny goes, and who have become very successful by not wasting money -- employ lots of people to do it? Every single Fortune 500 company employs graphic artists and sweats the decisions on their corporate identity and presentation. They spend a lot of money on it. Studies appear to show it makes a difference. Do you actually think it's because they're idiots who haven't realized the shocking truth you've just revealed? Or is it possible that you're either outright wrong, or representing a minority viewpoint in the US population?
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 5:09 PM
And if you believe this is true, can you explain to me why competent business executives -- people who know where every last penny goes, and who have become very successful by not wasting money -- employ lots of people to do it?
No, I seriously cannot explain it to you. The fact that I cannot really leaves me where I began-- unable to tell a customer why they should do this.
stormgren on Feb. 2, 2008 5:56 PM
No, I seriously cannot explain it to you. The fact that I cannot really leaves me where I began-- unable to tell a customer why they should do this.
Even in consideration when other people are giving you examples as to why they'd hire someone, it's impossible for you to contemplate?
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 6:07 PM
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't argue with them against it. That's their business, not mine, so they can take whatever risks they feel are right. That's why I'd rather have an employer than a client, because if it's a client, it's up to me to convince them and I have to understand their business.
phecda on Feb. 2, 2008 4:23 PM
$17.50 an hour? Are you crazy? When I was working as a consultant, I was "the cheap date" at only $115/hr. The last place I worked was selling services for installation/configuration at $1500 to $2000 a day. Plus travel and lodging. Obviously, what I saw was closer to $50/hr, but still.
So, you need to invest in a portfolio, whether for real or imaginary companies (it's about building examples of your work that other people can see and touch), and then use this portfolio to sell yourself to customers who can and will pay you what you're worth.
Time to leave the ghetto, kid.
atdt1991 on Feb. 2, 2008 4:40 PM
This is quite true. As far as graphic design goes, people KNOW when they're looking at sloppy design work, even if they don't know why they don't like something. Hell, I'm looking for a new job and the web site of the post-production house I applied at made a HUGE difference in who I chose.
Your estimates on what a business can afford seem to actually be estimates of what a single individual can afford to pay, out of their own pocket. That's really selling yourself way short.
There are many tens of thousands of professional designers who live in houses and everything, with clients that are delighted with their work and have the customers to show for it. The entire career isn't a big joke on companies.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 4:58 PM
Your estimates on what a business can afford seem to actually be estimates of what a single individual can afford to pay, out of their own pocket.
Of course. I don't know how to market myself at all, so these are the only people I've ever done freelance work for.
drkelso on Feb. 2, 2008 5:15 PM
I'm seeing a common theme here. You don't know how to market yourself.
I don't either. That's what headhunters and contracting companies are good at. Let them find your work for you. You probably won't even need to start a corporation for that. Just work for them and everyone is happy. It's what I do.
Go out and find out what headhunters do work for big companies that do trade show work and proposals. Both of those niches need good graphics people all the time.
drkelso on Feb. 2, 2008 5:17 PM
Oh...and look for work at the printing and repographics companies. Then you can learn from the source plus see good examples of work coming in to be printed.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 5:47 PM
What headhunters? What contracting companies?
stormgren on Feb. 2, 2008 6:11 PM
If you're entirely serious, and you'd be willing to talk to them, I know of a couple of contract houses and recruiters that might place and deal with graphics artists and designers. I could query to see if they'd be willing to talk to you to see if they had anything you might be a good fit for.
If so, let me know.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 6:46 PM
Sure. Thanks.
stormgren on Feb. 2, 2008 7:29 PM
Though a copy of your resume would probably also be useful if I do that.
Care to mail me a copy at jcbender at bendorius dot com?
drkelso on Feb. 2, 2008 7:17 PM
Unfortunately, the fastest thing I can recommend (Other than job posting sites like Monster and Careerbuilder) is to get out the yellow pages and start cold calling to gather information on who services which corporations and if they have that type of work available.
For example, Lockheed Martin in Orlando used a company called Avionics Research Corporation (http://www.arcstaffing.com/). By their name, you would never guess it was a staffing firm but we got all of our graphics designers, web designers, and tech writers from them. I also got a job of eight years through them.
You have to contact them and start asking. They'll be more than happy to talk to you because most job recruiters work on commission (paid from the hourly markup to the company they send you to). If you do that, you will find something but it takes a lot of work. Get a simple portfolio together first.
atdt1991 on Feb. 2, 2008 7:18 PM
There are many ways to market yourself as a designer, but the first step is to determine who you are (as a designer) and who you want, specifically, for clients.
It is good to have a brand - design for your own freelance company logo, and decide what makes you and your company unique. Remember that a professional appearance (graphically speaking) is priceless because it implies professional behavior and performance.
One way of marketing yourself is to offer a small discount in exchange for prominent placement of your design credit on the materials you create. Another is to get into professional design organizations and attend meetings or social functions. For instance, Anne goes to a Women in Computing evening once in awhile; a great way to find leads.
Other ways are to find places your target clients will be, and advertise to them there. This doesn't necessarily mean get an ad in a paper - you can put up fliers or business cards, and that can be extremely inexpensive. As someone else pointed out, not everything printed needs a 4-color press - you can get professional full-color graphics at Kinkos.
For example, as wedding videographers, Ben and I made up strategies for talking to churches and wedding planners in order to get our material in the hands of interested couples. We participated in a church raffle with a largely discounted package as a prize - in fact, our discount was deep enough to make it one of their top prizes, and they were very excited to have us participate.
You're great at brainstorming, and that's an important part of establishing a new business. There are some great books available at the library about marketing yourself.
You say "I don't know how to market myself at all", and all I can think is, "neither does anyone else, until they take steps to answer those questions." This isn't something completely beyond your ken.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 5:11 PM
Dude, you worked in computers.
phecda on Feb. 2, 2008 5:50 PM
Well, the common theme seems to be you don't know how to sell your skills. As the saying goes, any idiot can paint a picture, but it takes a genius to sell it. And even in the local job market, I would expect you to be able to pull at least $50K. More if you're doing high end stuff.
Now I find this amusing because you can sell -- you're a dyed in the wool evangelist. You sell logban, you sell open source, you sell penguicon, you sell transhumanism, etc. I can go on and on. You advocate ideas that appeal to you. And you mastered that art by going out and immersing yourself in these concepts and then sharing them with anyone who'll listen, and defend them to anyone who questions them.
So, here's the trick -- sell the idea of Matt Arnold, Graphic Designer. Who is he? What has he created? How can he (and this is admittedly the whole crux of the sell) add value to your organization? This last one you sell by providing examples of your work, by providing references to projects you have completed, by providing some suggestions of how the customer could improve their image, etc.
And expect to be shot down repeatedly until you connect with the right customer. That's the freelance approach. And as ATDT1991 pointed out, you find a headhunter to pimp you if you're not comfortable doing this yourself.
And given the local market, please consider that you may have to relocate out of state.
phecda on Feb. 2, 2008 6:05 PM
And an additional thought -- I know that you are capable of doing great work based on what you've done for program books, etc., for the local cons. Reading through the other comments so far, there's a lot of evidence against your internal nay-saying. I think the biggest hurdle is getting the first few jobs and creating a rhythm for a business -- attract new clients, work on projects, do business related stuff, repeat. I'm sure R. could help you keep the business end of things organized, and if not, there are people who, for a small professional fee (I know one who does this for $20/hour) will keep things organized for you. But, attracting new customers and farming existing customers are the key to freelancing. You can do good quality work, that's a given.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 6:48 PM
I don't question the quality of my work.
atdt1991 on Feb. 2, 2008 7:23 PM
I think at this point you two are arguing the semantics of quality vs value. You don't argue that what you create is good, you just don't think it's worth anything to other people.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 7:30 PM
That's what I'm trying to say. I wish I could just make stuff. I love making good stuff. I just dislike spending my effort thinking about how it solves other people's problems. That's why I like being employed by other people-- what their problem is and what they want me to do to solve it is more theirs to think about, and only a little bit mine.
atdt1991 on Feb. 2, 2008 7:37 PM
"I just dislike spending my effort thinking about how it solves other people's problems."
I suppose that is to some extent true, though a great employee will come up with ideas that solve those problems better than others, and otherwise contributes to the process.
Honestly, no offense intended, my initial response is, "Well, tough. That's how the world works." What you want is to be an artist - beholden to no one, doing what -you- want and no one else. It's a great dream to have, but most artists have to do something in order to live, and in that part of their lives, they have to consider what other people would like, what other people would find useful, and what other people will pay for.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 7:41 PM
No offense take, you're preaching to the choir. Of course, "tough, that's how the world works." Why do you think I'm doing this? I'm just acknowledging where my strengths and weaknesses are. Each person only has so much supply of willpower. It's important to adjust your goals and environment to not overextend that, or failure results.
users on Feb. 2, 2008 10:32 PM
Each person only has so much supply of willpower.
I disagree. I find that each person has exactly as much as they are willing to "mine" for. If each person had only a finite supply of willpower, I'd posit that mine would have been exhausted quite some time ago... and I haven't even had a hard go of it as compared to others.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 10:40 PM
Mine?
users on Feb. 2, 2008 11:02 PM
Mine: like dig down for... Metaphorical type stuff.
stormgren on Feb. 2, 2008 4:34 PM
(I know I'm going to run out of comment room, this response will get split up, apologies in advance.)
The other side of it, the side that article doesn't seem to realize, is that no matter how rare and difficult graphic design skills and software expertise may be, there just isn't a business case for it.
There most certainly is! I'm not entirely sure why you're beating yourself up constantly over your professional existence.
Case in point: One of my bigger issues is that I need to sit down and write promo copy for my business and translate that into marketing materials. Specifically, flyers, brochures, mailings. I *suck* at this. I can write what I do in a decent manner, but I *cannot* do layout worth a damn. Moreover, even if I could, I simply do not have the time. Or that the time I spend on it could be spent doing other things more valuable to me.
The business case, for me, is that I don't have the skillsets in-house, and I know I'm losing sales because I don't have the ability to just randomly send someone a services package, all shiny like. Therefore, I need graphics design services because the cost of not having someone do that for me is too high. Instant business case.
It's for deep pockets to show off how much they can splurge. Whereas you absolutely cannot opt out of a mechanic for your car or a brain surgeon for a tumor.
For full 4-color web printing or offset litho, yeah, that's deep pockets, but high quality color laser printing would also meet my needs, assuming I had something to actually print.
Your assumption is that marketing materials are for the rich very profitable companies. As a business owner trying to get the word out about me, having even laser printed 8.5x11" stock hand or machine folded brocures would be immensely useful. At this point, given some of the directions I'm thinking of taking things, it would be invaluable.
Consider if my friends do pay me to design for their companies, and I do go into freelancing. I've calculated it out that I'd have to charge $17.50 an hour to make ends meet!
This isn't mocking, but, well, that's it?
I was prepared to spend twice that. At least. But I don't want to spend that with just anyone. I would prefer someone referred to me by a friend, or someone I know personally who does that sort of work.
...All told, I don't believe in the business case for my own areas of expertise, plus I'd never get ahead financially, all it would do is stave off destitution as paying work would arrive unreliably.
First, if you ever want to continue doing freelance work or even getting a 9-to-5 with an employer, you need to believe in the intrinsic value of your services. If you don't, you've shot yourself in the kneecaps before you ever get out of the door. I have given you one really good example as to that. I'm sure others can as well.
Second, unreliable work is why you charge more than $17.50 an hour, to get ahead and to cover the rough spots. It is assumed that contractors and freelancers cost more on an hourly basis than an employee because they've got their own overhead.
Additionally, an odd bit of business psych here too, if you're charging cheaply for work, customers will sometimes assume that your work isn't of quality, if you're charging more, then, well, they're obviously getting a quality product. It seems very non-logical, and is, but well, it's how things work.
(continued on a response to this comment)
stormgren on Feb. 2, 2008 4:34 PM
(continued)
...But I can't look in the eye of anyone I care about and ask them for $17.50 an hour.
As well you shouldn't. You should be asking them for quite a bit more. The worst they can say is "No". The middle case is that they say "Well, can we discuss price?" The best case is that they say "Well, that seems fine to me, where do I sign?"
Friends, family and associates are the business 101 of networking. You go to them, get the word out, get the referrals through them. I would be a lot more comfortable doing business with someone I know, than having to go find a perfect stranger to fix something for me.
I made a very very comfortable living last year getting business through friends and family. And I charge $125/hr nominally for ad hoc work, and a bit less for contract work, depending on the contract. Yes, I discount for good friends and family, but it's not very much.
Again, the worst they can say is "No".
I can think of that going very badly. The client who looks at the piece, and looks at the insane money they spent on it, and has to get revisions on the piece over and over and is never satisfied. Or the printer screws it up, or it looks different in ink than it looked on the screen, even though I warned them, and they blame me.
This is a part of doing business. This is also why you need to have terms with them up front as to how many revisions are in there before they start paying for it, payment terms, and other useful things. Documentation is key as well during the process. Using your example, if the printer screws up, and you gave them plenty of warnings, make sure you gave those warnings in writing, and if you really feel that it'll bite you otherwise, get an actual signature acknowledging these warnings before it goes to print. Clear terms help preserve friendships.
One of these days, we really need to sit down in person and talk about this, if you'd like.
atdt1991 on Feb. 2, 2008 4:56 PM
Ben and I had a decent contract written up in about a week that covered all sorts of things for our wedding videography company. It covered how many revisions would be free (and how many man-hours those revisions would be), what costs would be for further revisions if necessary, the nature of advance viewings, and generally speaking the amount of control the client had over the finished product. Now, we had our own personal ethical provisions for how far we would go to please the customer, and if something that was wrong was our own fault, we'd bend over backwards, but those were the base rules, and a client had to sign that contract to get our services. It was only a couple of pages, and no one seemed to mind, but you have to lay this stuff out IN ADVANCE if you're going to do contract work, and you can't, ever, decide to do it by oral agreement, or you get what's comin'.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 5:09 PM
First, if you ever want to continue doing freelance work or even getting a 9-to-5 with an employer, you need to believe in the intrinsic value of your services.
I don't want to. I really wish I didn't have to. Freelancing is desperation. I'm only talking to these guys about freelance work because Meijers and Blockbuster turned me down as overqualified to earn minimum wage. I hate the idea of going into business for myself.
tlatoani on Feb. 2, 2008 5:17 PM
You're going to have to decide whether you're psychologically unsuited to work as a freelancer or whether you just need more education on the parts where you're weak. I can't tell. As a rule, I tend to lean toward the more education option, always, but I'm just not sure here.
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 5:47 PM
Where can I get more education? And in what?
tlatoani on Feb. 2, 2008 10:25 PM
The first thing you need to learn is what the purposes of graphic design and layout are, and what it can be used to accomplish. If you don't know why you're doing something, you won't do it as well as you could. Having seen some of your work product, I think you know some of this on an unconscious level, but based on everything else you've said here you're missing out on a lot. Try some basic texts on graphic design and layout. Take a look at the latest version of the "... For Dummies" books for this as a starter.
If you're going to be a freelancer, which I realize isn't your preferred option, the second thing you need to learn is how to run a small business -- because that's what you'll be. This is a lot harder to learn from books, but there are books on consulting and freelancing out there, and they have a lot of useful tips. You can also get some of this (as the discussion shows) by making phenomenally ignorant statements on the topic around your friends who *do* know this stuff and getting corrected ;-), but I recommend a book or two.
stormgren on Feb. 2, 2008 6:19 PM
Even if freelance isn't your style, and you want to be someone's employee for the rest of your life, my point still stands.
You have to recognize the value of your work, what the end result is of what you do so that you can deal with employers and promote yourself internally. If you're completely passive with anything that you do, the universe will steamroller you every time.
Other food for thought: Some of your previously mentioned dream jobs might require that you do go into business for yourself. That alone should not be an impediment to your trying to reach them.
drkelso on Feb. 2, 2008 5:06 PM
"I can think of that going very badly. The client who looks at the piece, and looks at the insane money they spent on it, and has to get revisions on the piece over and over and is never satisfied. Or the printer screws it up, or it looks different in ink than it looked on the screen, even though I warned them, and they blame me."
As for friends and family, if I agree to do work for them at all, it's usually free or for the cost of the materials (photography, computer stuff, beer, etc). That gets me past the guilt of asking for what it would normally cost.
Companies, however, need competent people and that is well worth the money they will spend to get a project done on time. When I worked at Lockheed Martin, our department produced proposals to the government to bid on projects worth millions and billions of dollars in new business. We needed competent writers and graphics designers to produce quality books and illustrations to prove our company was worth trusting to build a product.
We won a lot of our proposals because we had good people. And the cost of winning millions of dollars in business cost thousands and sometimes millions. And it was worth it.
The $17.50 you are talking about is half of what our graphic designers got paid. And their contracting companies probably made double that. That amount is still much cheaper than hiring full-time employees plus benefits for work that is needed once in a while.
So don't undersell yourself. If you are freelancing, you should be making $25-$45/hour after taxes. If you are really good at what you do, charge higher. If you are still learning, charge a little less and get your foot in the door so you can get work experience.
But don't feel guilty about doing a good job for a company and getting paid fairly for it. You're helping them with their business and good help is very hard to find. They need you. They're not giving you charity.
drkelso on Feb. 2, 2008 5:08 PM
Oh...and revisions are expected. They will ask you to change stuff all the time. It's part of figuring out what looks the best. It's like writing multiple drafts of a new book. They'll ask you to re-do something many times and if you are happy to do it and cheerfully, they will LOVE you for it...and happily pay you.
zencuppa on Feb. 2, 2008 5:07 PM — Hmm . . .
"Full-color costs thousands. "
Ummmm . .No it doesn't have too. Color digital printers and copiers allow small businesses to print smaller amounts with the same quality. I have clients who do this (and I have as well for my business).
"The other side of it, the side that article doesn't seem to realize, is that no matter how rare and difficult graphic design skills and software expertise may be, there just isn't a business case for it."
Umm . . Also incorrect for graphics design, for medium sized to larger companies. They cannot compete without high quality marketing pieces, a decent web site and advertising . .All of which need graphics design. Word of mouth and networking, while both very useful, do not generate enough business to consistently make a profit.
Charging $17.50 . .
I have worked with many freelance graphic designers who charge 5-10 times more than $17.50 per hour and frankly most of them are worth it.
Also, keep in mind that most freelancers are lucky if they can bill %60 of their hours because of the time it takes to *run the business.* This is true for me as well.
I recommend actually talking to a couple of experienced freelance graphic designers to get a more accurate picture of work, costs, market, etc.
Portfolio Pieces: Also, I will sometimes discount my rates to get a certain type of portfolio piece, and to me that's perfectly valid.
My two cents.
users on Feb. 2, 2008 10:37 PM
I have to chime in to side with the "only $17.50?" crowd. When I freelance, my default charge is $80/hr local. For friends, I'll usually drop it down considerably, but even then I tend to take at MINIMUM, $20/hr; usually closer to $35/hr.
If you were charging $20 an hour, you would probably run into the problem of people assuming poor quality due to your low price; I know I tend to be skeptical of such surprisingly low prices.
Also, could you use the stuff you have done for cons as part of your portfolio?
matt-arnold on Feb. 2, 2008 10:40 PM
I always use program books, ads, postcards and mailers for conventions in my portfolio.
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