'Networking = Good' And 'A Clarification'
~ Networking = Good ~
I have hope that it's possible to be more real and open in the personal networking method of job hunting, which I've never tried before. The difference between the stretch of unemployment/underemployment six years ago, my last job loss three years ago, and today, will be that in the past three years I've formed the first community of support I've ever had. It would make sense if it turns out that only cold calling sucks. Networking makes me feel very encouraged. It's making friends and talking to each other, and friends don't require that I sell myself in a disadvantaged job market in the smarmy way a used car salesman sells a disadvantaged car.
For instance, I felt really good about that opportunity I applied for a few months ago as a graphic designer at Between The Lines. I would have been assisting a social mission I like, by performing a set of tasks I enjoy. A friend who worked there told me about it and vouched for it, so I got excited. It was 100% bullshit free, and I did not feel like any of them were expecting me to get excited in my heart of hearts about a blind, malevolent superorganism.
I wish job interviews were like that scene in The Princess Bride:
"Come, sir. We must take you to your ship."
*smile* "We are men of honor. Lies do not become us."
"Well spoken, sir."
*boot to the head*
I'd prefer a straight shooter who would respect me for being forthright, and then kicked me in the head, over any job interviewer I ever had (always some stranger), who expected me to protect his idea that his company (which I've never heard of before and have no reason to care about) was more than a source of income on the way to something better. One of them gave me a speech about how it was a ministry from God.
Of course, the boot to the head from the straight shooter is that they don't hire you. (One solution would be to work in retail or the service sector, which doesn't expect you to give a damn; except they rarely even respond, and when they do it's to say I'm overqualified, and if I got the job I'd be even less able to make ends meet than I was with my office job. Ah well.)
~ A Clarification ~
I hope none of you thought I was talking about you in the last post! Good grief, that never occurred to me. I was talking about job listings and the unrecognizable (possibly fictional) drones described therein. If it turns out anybody I know was excited about making their superorganism happy, I was not aware of it; if you think you're one of them, and are my friend, I would say you're a darn sight better than that. But all that means is that we disagree about how we interpret corporate b(*ahem*) job listings-- we don't disagree that you are a person of quality. If I have misunderstood and have offended someone in some other way, please let me know what it is.
Secondly, in case anyone misunderstood this, in no way did that post contradict anything I said in the previous very optimistic post. I certainly didn't feel like it did. They are two sides of the same post, and I stand by them both in facts and sentiment until I find out differently. I just separated out the negative parts into a private LJ post because employers will probably Google me and find this blog. All their other employees feel the way I do, so you'd think they could just say "we are men and women of the world, and the truth is transparently obvious in each other's eyes, can we acknowledge it?"
I assumed you would all agree, but you don't, and that confuses and surprises me. Some of you said it was unlike me. No, on the topic of what I love to do and what people make me do, I've been consistently that stubborn since grade school. I am now 32, so if that's just a mood, it's a pretty long mood. Taking two weeks off from job hunting is not going to change my mind for the first time in my life. Possibly, getting to know professionals might give me a different perspective; usually when my friends who are in professional industries talk about their jobs, I don't listen well. OK, going forward I should discipline myself to change that. No, the only way to help is to tell me why you think differently than I do. C.I.T.O.K.A.T.E. I'm willing to listen, and you could be right. But all that means is that I'll carefully consider your arguments; it doesn't mean I guaranteee not to disagree. That's how it's supposed to work.
Comments
atdt1991 on Jan. 8, 2007 2:07 AM
Motivations for acquiring a job are complicated for most people, especially those with pre-existing obligations. Technically speaking, the thing that's bothering you is that we deceive each other by pretending that we are being employed for something other than money - money does provide satisfaction and peace of mind, though, and shouldn't be discounted just because it's culturally distasteful to discuss it.
However, there are other reasons to enjoy a job. For instance, education/experience. I would love a job that would help me learn to A) manage my time better and B) tell better stories. Video editing is a great example of a job that would pay me to train myself (or be professionally trained) in the latest and greatest methods for doing this, as well as help me become more efficient at producing a visual representation of what is in my head.
Also, most people consider the reliability of a corporate position (which is debatable in the current climate, but is traditionally firmer than small business or one's own business) a valuable asset, especially when they believe they can't afford to take the risk with other people's safety and well-being, such as a wife, husband, or child. The possibility of being able to afford a reasonable place to live, a vehicle for transportation, health insurance for one's family.
These are genuine reasons to be excited about a career. Most of us are resigned to needing steady income, and are looking to do well by ourselves in the process. Some people are learning skills to prepare themselves for starting their -own- business somewhere down the line.
What I am essentially saying is this: What you are giving your loyalty to isn't necessarily the company's goals, directly - it is your own goals, which are compatible with the goals of the company.
As someone who works in the corporate world -and- has my own (fulfilling) business, I consider the web design job something that keeps me living in an apartment of my own and in a vehicle that gets me from place to place while I create and produce on my own time.
atdt1991 on Jan. 8, 2007 2:15 AM
Also, consider this an issue of supply and demand. If you were a business owner and you had a choice between someone who said "I care nothing for your company or its goals, but I will work hard for the 8 hours I have promised you" and someone who said "I am dedicated to what you represent! I eagerly await my tasks!" who would you choose?
More importantly, what sort of inferences might you make about their character (accurate or otherwise)? You could presume that the former is dead honest, even at their own peril. You could presume that the latter won't just punch a clock and leave someone else hanging because it isn't their job, but will plug on into the night if necessary.
Now, the latter there isn't -healthy-, but this isn't a matter of holistic well-being, here. An HR rep is hired to hire people who will do the company the most good. They know what they have to say is full of shit, most of the time, but it is an important illusion that everyone maintains. And finally, frankly - there actually ARE plenty of people out there who enjoy going to work in a comfortable environment with people they don't dislike, doing something they are good at, and going home with paycheck in hand for a job well-done. Me, I don't like my job and am looking for a new one, but if I was being paid something reasonable considering my education and training, and I was working with people I liked... well, hey. I'd be fairly happy to continue doing so until I could create a company of my own to follow my own personal goals.
temujin9 on Jan. 8, 2007 8:28 PM
More importantly, what sort of inferences might you make about their character (accurate or otherwise)?
The problem with this line of reasoning is the relative accuracy of your inferences. The first ("honest at their own peril") is much more likely to be true than the second ("eagerly await my tasks"). I've seen the second much more than the first, and it's quite often a lie (small or large). It also encourages lies like "I've got it covered" and "it'll be ready soon".
In the long term, I'd prefer a honest worker to a (faux-)enthusiastic one.
atdt1991 on Jan. 8, 2007 9:43 PM
I'd agree with that, but I think that the choice is rarely between two people whose differences are only those. Again, is the person enthusiastic about the job because they're simply pulling BS, or are they allowing the enthusiasm about what the job will mean to them (financially or career-wise) to be seen as enthusiasm for the company itself?
Also, of course, if you've worked for a company that is a nightmare, getting an interview with a great one with great people can be a dream come true, in which case the enthusiasm is real.
amanda_lodden on Jan. 9, 2007 3:31 PM
If you were a business owner and you had a choice between someone who said "I care nothing for your company or its goals, but I will work hard for the 8 hours I have promised you" and someone who said "I am dedicated to what you represent! I eagerly await my tasks!" who would you choose?
I am a business owner, and I'd pick the one who worked hard for 8 hours every time. The kiss-ass is a time-bomb waiting to explode.
Then again, what I represent most is "making money to support the company and everyone in it" so anyone who tried to pull off a "I am dedicated to what you repesent" without adding "and there will be raises or bonuses all around, right?" would obviously be lying.
Back to the original post though: there are a great number of people who do not want to hear the truth. About 6 years ago, my boss decided to hire a third person to join my co-worker Michael and I. Since Michael and I had been friends for years before this job, and he suggested me when things grew too large to support by himself, our boss asked if we knew anyone we would like to suggest for the position of Our Lackey (he gave it some other title, but Michael and I both knew what it really was). We suggested Chris, who was still learning the ropes but had a decent background, a good ability to learn quickly, and had recently started looking for a job. As an added bonus, Chris's wife already worked for the company, so there would be a health-insurance savings for the boss. Resumes were submitted, and an interview was set up. Five minutes into the interview, our boss said "I don't think you're the right person for the job."
Six years later, and the subject STILL makes Chris and his wife fume. We don't know exactly what criteria the boss was looking for that he didn't see in Chris (or what appalled him), though many people have their suspicions. Regardless, the boss didn't dither around and say "I have another candidate to interview, and I'll let you know after that" or any other "I don't want to hire you but I don't want to say I don't want to hire you" BS. He was honest and to the point. And hated for it.
The reason there's so much BS in the job market is because so many people would rather hear the BS than accept that not everyone wants the same thing, be it in life or in their possessions or in their employees. I'd pick the fatally honest employee, but the kiss-ass has a pretty good shot at other companies.
atdt1991 on Jan. 9, 2007 6:14 PM
Well, frankly, I agree with pretty much all of that (also as a business owner). Most people cannot get to the point where they'll say "I respect you for your honesty enough to get over the fact that you just told me you don't really care about me as if you must in order to do your job."
Think about american corporate culture as a whole. Bosses frown upon you if you don't work more than 8 hours. People bitch when you take off the time you're entitled to by contract. We, as a whole, both expect and promote an unholy dedication to The Company, even though we don't get the lifetime company benefits they do in Japan.
blue-duck on Jan. 8, 2007 1:30 PM
I love the Princess Bride analogy.
I thank the Universe right now for having a job that is both for a non-profit and for a boss who knows full well and acknowledges that my life is more important than the job I do to make a living.
temujin9 on Jan. 8, 2007 8:44 PM
Matt, if I ever get a true for-pay company going, I'm hiring you. Ten of you beats hundreds of can-do sycophants, any day of the week.
palindromeg33k on Jan. 8, 2007 8:45 PM
One solution would be to work in retail or the service sector, which doesn't expect you to give a damn
the hell they don't!
i can tell you with certainty that the both the employment fields you spoke of fit perfectly under the description you so eloquently provided. This is the reason i was nodding my head with such frequency at your original post.
avt-tor on Jan. 9, 2007 6:38 PM
Maybe there are certain jobs you shouldn't apply for. The only suggestion I would make is that you not assume that people are lying to you about their own motivations.
I don't equate having a positive attitude with being a sycophant. Certainly I see a primary focus of my own job as pointing out different observations and conclusions from what I get from colleagues and superiors. The saying in business is that if you have two people who always have the same opinions, that's one more person than you need. Frankly I'm happy to hire someone who's willing to compete with me; I can learn from them. The only reason to hire anybody is so that they can do tasks to free up the employer's time for other things; if one can hire people who can do the delegated tasks better than the manager could, so much the better for everyone.
You should pick a job where you like the work and where you respect your colleagues. It sounds to me like you are ruling yourself out of a lot of options where you might do interesting, useful work with good people, just because one of the constraints in the job happens to be a corporate profit motive. Every job environment has rules and requirements. Teachers, doctors, police officers, and soldiers all work in environments where someone has to have the responsibilty of making sure there is enough money to cover the paychecks. Even in something as directly profit-oriented as retail, most of the successful and happy people I know think of their job as helping people, finding ways to make people's lives better, finding things that people want, etc. where money is just a way of keeping score or a way of keeping the enterprise going.
I have no problem with people who see their job as a means to the end of doing the other things in their life that are important to them. A job doesn't have to be a higher cause. But I do want to work with people who at least understand the organizational context and who will acknowledge other people's reasons for being there.
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